Crazy Sous-Vide Meat Aging Experiment
It's worth mentioning that Warm Aging meat is discussed briefly in the Modern Cuisine books too. Since I do not have the books I can't comment.
Fish sauce as well as Worcestershire sauce contain anchovies (more in fish sauce) and a compound called a nucleotide. Nucleotides plus glutamates mean over the top awesome beefy goodness.
So whether it's Soy, Worcestershire, or fish sauce the glutamate component plus the nucleotide that's found in anchovies will amp up the taste of beef. Ok, so that's me giving you a synopsis what I have researched. I still have no hands-on experience with these techniques. But it's coming.
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So What is Warm-Aging aka Low Temp (LT) 2 Stage Sous-Vide Cooking? (UPDATE)
The story goes like this....By bringing up the temperature of the meat to 103 f (I have read 104 f is also used, and that's what I use) Degrees for X amount of time you increase the activity of the Calpain and at 120 f (I have also read that the upper range is 122 f) the Cathepsin. These are the same enzymes that are present during traditional Dry-Aging that is done in Refrigerators. Of course, with Warm Aging, the process is hastened. Tender meat is the by-product of the enzymatic process. Ok, so far, this process is really sounding good.
While writing this post, I am feeling ecstatic about the whole process and can't wait to get started.
There is hardly anything written on the subject of Warm Aging. I have come across forums that discuss this in great detail, though. Most of it is above my head or understanding. But for the most part, I grasped the critical stuff. The food science sources are mostly silent on the subject, except for the following.
Food Science Paper- Click the link to the left for some Food Science Stuff.
After perusing the forums and combing over the available sources, I am moving forward with my experiment. I have outlined the steps below.
- The paper above asserts that the Enzyme Aminopesidases break down the products of calpains and cathepsins into smaller flavorful molecules. Hmmm, food for thought. I guess I will keep the temp down to maximize these enzymes.
- After reading countless papers, forums, and blogs I have a Cooking Hypothesis that I will explore. Steak 1- will be Warm Aged (Nekkid), Steak 2- will be Warm Aged too but I will use .60% Salt for the dry brine for three days. Why dry brine? Dry brining holds on to more moisture during the cook and, more importantly tastes better (see my other experiment HERE).
- I am going to Warm Age Steak 1 & 2 at 104 F degrees (40 c) for 90 Minutes. I chose not to Warm Age at the additional temp of 120 f degrees for X amount of time because there have been reports of Bad Flavor by-products from the Cathepsin, which are most active at that temp. Additionally, the 104 f degree temp will avoid overheating the alanyl & arginyl aminopeptidases and aminopeptidase and kick the Calapain into overdrive. And before you ask, I know this is in the danger zone, but it will only be there for a short time....Less than 4 hours. The same great enzymes that will transform this steak into something special is heated at the temps that accelerate the growth of pathogens; therefore, I will pasteurize the meat using Baldwins tables. I chose 90 minutes because the steak is not very thick...only 1 3/8 inches. Had it been a much thicker piece of meat, I would have opted for a longer cook time. Note: some people have decided for a pre-sear or quick dunk in boiling water (in the bag) to kill off the surface pathogens. Not a bad idea mind you, but I chose a different path. If I plan on pasteurizing it during the cook and searing it afterward I found this step unnecessary.
Disclaimer- "And before you ask, I know this is in the danger zone, but it will only be there for a short time….Less than 4 hours." Ahhh…please do your research before attempting this. If you have a compromising immune system or suffer from an autoimmune disease, if you are preparing food to a very older adult, pregnant, or even a very young child, I would be extra careful about warm aging or cooking food at very low temps.
Something else to consider. We always talk about the 4-hour window of doom, but do you know it's an accumulated time? Yea, it's a rhetorical question. Think about it for a moment. From the slaughter to the butchering, everything else in between and finally to the shelf where you are buying the meat…. how time has gone by? I do not either. Let the cook and the buyer beware.
Note 9/09/2017- I was reading in one of Nathan Myhrvold Egullet forums posts that 113℉ is also an excellent temp to Warm Age. As some of you already know, Nathan has written about this in his books. However, in these forums, many many scientists contribute to this very topic, and it's a great read. So far, I've come across that 104℉ is a great temp, and now 113℉ is too. I plan on making 4-6 steaks and contrasting those two temps. I will report back. There seems to be a consensus that 120-122 produces off-flavors, so I am not even considering this as an option. I once warm aged at 104℉than used 122℉, and the results were good, but.... I thought I was going crazy, but there was an off-taste. After doing some research it I realized I wasn't crazy…LOL.
RESULTS OF 104 F VS 113 F
WINNER IS 113 ℉
From Baldwin Himself….
Note: Best to use this technique with steaks and meats with a large surface area. They were never intended for large cuts like roasts. I will use it on Tri-Tip, but that's about as big as I will go.
In the end, how much risk are you willing to assume?
Something else to consider. We always talk about the 4-hour window of doom, but do you know it's an accumulated time? Yea, it's a rhetorical question. Think about it for a moment. From the slaughter to the butchering, everything else in between and finally to the shelf where you are buying the meat…. how time has gone by? I do not either. Let the cook and the buyer beware.
Note: When I increase temp from 104℉ to the desired temp, I will add boiling water to the cooking vessel (not on the bag). This will hasten the climb to the appropriate temp. What could have taken 15-30 minutes can be done in less than 5 minutes.
Note 9/09/2017- I was reading in one of Nathan Myhrvold Egullet forums posts that 113℉ is also an excellent temp to Warm Age. As some of you already know, Nathan has written about this in his books. However, in these forums, many many scientists contribute to this very topic, and it's a great read. So far, I've come across that 104℉ is a great temp, and now 113℉ is too. I plan on making 4-6 steaks and contrasting those two temps. I will report back. There seems to be a consensus that 120-122 produces off-flavors, so I am not even considering this as an option. I once warm aged at 104℉than used 122℉, and the results were good, but.... I thought I was going crazy, but there was an off-taste. After doing some research it I realized I wasn't crazy…LOL.
RESULTS OF 104 F VS 113 F
WINNER IS 113 ℉
From Baldwin Himself….
Enzymes
Recall that enzymes make up a significant portion of the sarcoplasmic proteins. The sarcoplasmic calpains and lysosomal cathepsins are especially important in aging or conditioning. These enzymes catalyze the hydrolysis of one or more of the proteins — calpains the Z line proteins and cathepsin the myosin, actin, troponin, and collagen proteins. Dry aging is usually done at 1–3.3◦C/34–38◦F with about 70% humidity for 14 to 45 days. Higher temperature aging is also possible, see (Lawrie, 1998, pp 239– 40); Myhrvold et al. (2011) found that even 4 hours at 45◦C/113◦F can significantly improve tenderness. (Lawrie (1998) notes that at 49◦C/120◦F that tenderness is particularly increased but that it has a somewhat undesirable flavor.) At sous vide cooking temperatures between 55◦C/130◦F and 60◦C/140◦F, many of the enzymes have been denatured but some of the collagenases are active and can significantly increase tender- ness after about 6 hours (Tornberg, 2005).
Recall that enzymes make up a significant portion of the sarcoplasmic proteins. The sarcoplasmic calpains and lysosomal cathepsins are especially important in aging or conditioning. These enzymes catalyze the hydrolysis of one or more of the proteins — calpains the Z line proteins and cathepsin the myosin, actin, troponin, and collagen proteins. Dry aging is usually done at 1–3.3◦C/34–38◦F with about 70% humidity for 14 to 45 days. Higher temperature aging is also possible, see (Lawrie, 1998, pp 239– 40); Myhrvold et al. (2011) found that even 4 hours at 45◦C/113◦F can significantly improve tenderness. (Lawrie (1998) notes that at 49◦C/120◦F that tenderness is particularly increased but that it has a somewhat undesirable flavor.) At sous vide cooking temperatures between 55◦C/130◦F and 60◦C/140◦F, many of the enzymes have been denatured but some of the collagenases are active and can significantly increase tender- ness after about 6 hours (Tornberg, 2005).
Note: Best to use this technique with steaks and meats with a large surface area. They were never intended for large cuts like roasts. I will use it on Tri-Tip, but that's about as big as I will go.
- Steak 3- will be coated with 3% of Fish sauce and Vacuumed sealed for three days. Steak 4 will be completely Nekkid. After Steak 1 & 2 have reached their 90-minute mark, I will crank up the temp to 131˚ƒ degrees and add Steak 3 & 4 and cook until they are all pasteurized. After the cook, I will Cold-Shock and refrigerate until the sear. Note: Steak 3- Fish Sauce was brushed on and placed in a vacuum bag than briefly placed in the freezer. Concerned about the fish sauce being sucked into the machine during vacuum sealing, I froze the fish sauce on the surface of the meat. If you have a chamber Vac Machine this step is not necessary.
To Calculate the percentage, you need to use this as your guide.
Again everything is a percentage of the weight of the meat after trimming. Here is an example- Meat weight is 2393 grams, and we want to find out the amount of salt we need in grams- 2393 * 3.5%=83.755 or 2392/100 * 3.5 =83.755 grams. Or 2393 * .035 = 83.755
Results below with Review
Note: All steaks after Sous-Vide, Cold-Shocked, and refrigerated for about an hour. Before weighing, they were wiped dry. Salt and Pepper were the only spices I used. All steaks were seared at the same—all given a 5-minute rest before weight was taken.
After Sear- Very Tender, Nice beef Flavor and absolutely delicious.
This steak received 4 1/2 stars because it was so tender.
Initial thoughts, when removed from Vacuum Bag- No smell at all.
After Sear- Very flavorful due to the pre-salting. Better than number one. Excellent Beef Flavor delicious. The meat was very, very tender. I detected more moisture.
This steak was the favorite and received five stars because of taste and tenderness.
NOTE: You can place steak in a container and rotate every 12 hours than Vac seal too. Using a chamber vac would be better than a pull vac sealer. If all you have is a pull Vac Sealer partially freeze meat inside vac bag first, then vac seal. You want to avoid sucking up any fish sauce into the machine.
Initial thoughts, when removed from Vacuum Bag- Delightful beef smell. Note: the other steaks did not have this marvelous smell. Before Sear, I sprinkled on just a tad more salt and lots of pepper. After Sear- I knew right away that this was something special. No fish smell at all. Very pleasing strong beef smell and taste. Extremely pleasant to the palate. Not as tender as steak one or two but better than steak 4. It was freaking excellent tasting steak. This was my daughter's favorite!!! If I had to define what UMAMI is, I would equate it with this steak.
This steak received 4 1/4 stars because it was not as tender as steak 1 & 2. It had the best beef flavor, though. This steak was barely under steak #1.
Initial thoughts, when removed from Vacuum Bag- No smell at all. Sprinkled on Salt and pepper.
After Sear- When you compare this steak to the other three, you will find this steak was very boring. No flavor. Salting and Peppering after the Sous-Vide only mildly helped with flavor. Significantly denser than steak 1-3. Had I not compared it to the other three steaks, I would have said this was a good steak.
This steak received 1 1/2 stars because it paled in comparison to the others.
My star rating for these steaks is as follows.
Steak 2 - 5 Stars
Steak 1- 4 1/2 Stars
Steak 3- 4 1/4 Stars
Steak 4- 1 1/2 Stars
The future experiment will be Fish Sauce Aging combined with Warm Aging. My hypothesis for this experiment which, is based on the above results, should produce the ultimate steak.
HERE YOU GO... DONE IT ALREADY
UPDATE 4/02/17- Depending on the thickness of the steak, I am finding that 1.75-2.25% Fish Sauce is adequate.
UPDATE- I prefer Fish Salt to Fish sauce.... made by RedBoat too.
TOP OF THE STEAK PAGE
The future experiment will be Fish Sauce Aging combined with Warm Aging. My hypothesis for this experiment which, is based on the above results, should produce the ultimate steak.
HERE YOU GO... DONE IT ALREADY
UPDATE 4/02/17- Depending on the thickness of the steak, I am finding that 1.75-2.25% Fish Sauce is adequate.
UPDATE- I prefer Fish Salt to Fish sauce.... made by RedBoat too.
Warm Age process and why I do it.
For me, I found that the whole reason for warm aging is the reduction of purge hence more moist meat. I.E., With Trip-Tip- if I warm age at 104 f for 3 hours and finish at 133 f for 7 hours, I get the same results had I SV at 133 f for 12 hours but with less purge and much more moisture retention.
And I don't always use Faux Age with Fish Sauce or Fish Salt. It's not always necessary. I.e. Hanger Steak has plenty of Beefy Flavor.
And I don't always use Faux Age with Fish Sauce or Fish Salt. It's not always necessary. I.e. Hanger Steak has plenty of Beefy Flavor.
TOP OF THE STEAK PAGE
Note- below and taken directly from egullet forums. Douglas Baldwin comments below.
You're absolutely right that there many things that affect how tender cooked meat is. I certainly didn't mean to imply that the conversion of collagen into gelatin by thermal or enzymatic processes was the whole story: I was just trying to briefly clarify Pedro's post.
I'd be very interested to know which recent articles you've found that illuminate this fascinating topic. You're certainly right that most the studies -- even recent ones -- use absurdly high temperatures and this limits their applicability to sous vide cooking.
So everyone can follow the discussion, let's step back a moment and discuss the main ideas.
Heat and Proteins
Meat is roughly 75% water, 20% protein, and 5% fat and other substances. When we cook, we're using heat to change (or denature) these proteins. Which proteins and how much we denature them mainly depends on temperature and to a lesser extent on time. I like to divide the proteins into three groups: myofibrillar (50--55%), sarcoplasmic (30--34%), and connective tissue (10--15%).
Myofibrillar proteins: While there are about 20 different myofibrillar proteins, 65--70% are myosin or actin. Myosin molecules form the thick filaments and actin the thin filaments of the muscle fibers. The muscle fibers start to shrink at 95--105°F (35--40°C) and the shrinkage increases almost linearly up to 175°F (80°C). The water-holding capacity of whole muscle meat is governed by the shrinking and swelling of myofibrils. Around 80% of the water in muscle meat is held within the myofibrils between the thick (myosin) and thin (actin) filaments. Between 105°F and 140°F (40°C and 60°C), the muscle fibers shrink transversely and widen the gap between fibers. Then, above 140°F--150°F (60°C--65°C) the muscle fibers shrink longitudinally and cause substantial water loss and the extent of this contraction increases with temperature.
Sarcoplasmic proteins: Sarcoplasmic or soluble proteins are made up of about 50 components, but mostly enzymes and myoglobin. Unlike the myofibrillar proteins and connective tissue, sarcoplasmic proteins expand when heated. The aggregation and gelation of sarcoplasmic proteins begins around 105°F (40°C) and finishs around 140°F (60°C). As Nathan mentioned, before these enzymes are denatured they can significantly increase the tenderness of the meat. The ratio of myoglobin (Mb), oxymyoglobin (MbO2), and metmyoglobin (MMb+) also determines the color of the meat; see Belitz et al. (2004) pages 576--579 or Charley (1982) pages 395--398 for more details on meat color.
Connective tissue: Connective tissue (or insoluble proteins) holds the muscle fibers, bones, and fat in place: it surrounds individual muscle fibers (endomysium) and bundles of these fibers (perimysium) and bundles of these bundles (epimysium). Connective tissue consists of collagen and elastin fibers embedded in an amorphous intercellular substances (mostly mucopolysaccharides). Collagen fibers are long chains of tropocollagen (which consist of three polypeptides wound about each other like a three-ply thread). Collagen fibers start shrinking around 140°F (60°C) but contract more intensely over 150°F (65°C). Shrinking mostly destroys this triple-stranded helix structure and is transformed into random coils that are soluble in water and are called gelatin. Elastin fibers, on the other hand, don't denature with heating and have rubber-like properties; luckily, there is much less elastin than collagen -- except in the muscles involved in pulling the legs backward. As Nathan reiterated, there isn't one temperature above which the collagen is denatured but that it increases exponentially with higher temperatures; for safety reasons, we usually use 130°F (55°C) as the lowest practical temperature for denaturing collagen.
Tenderness: When chewing, you deform and fracture the meat. The mechanical forces include shear, compressive, and tensile forces; most studies use a Warner--Bratzler shear test perpendicular to the muscle fibers and this seems to correlate well with taste tests. Typically, W-B shear decreases from 120°F (50°C) to 150°F (65°C) and then increases up to 175°F (80°C). While this increase in tenderness used to be attributed to a weakening of connective tissue, most now believe it's caused by the change from a viscoelastic to an elastic material: raw meat is tougher because of the viscous flow in the fluid-filled channels between the fibers and fiber bundles; heating up to 150°F (65°C) increases tenderness because the sarcoplasmic proteins aggregate and gel and makes it easier to fracture the meat with your teeth; over 150°F (65°C) and up to 175°F (80°C), the meat is tougher because the elastic modulus increases and requires larger tensile stress to extend fractures (Tornberg, 2005).
Both the intramuscular connective tissue and the myofibrillar component contribute to toughness. In many cuts, connective tissue is the major source of toughness, but the myofibrillar component is sometimes dominant and referred to as actomyosin toughness.
- Connective tissue toughness: Both the collagen content and its solubility are important. Muscles that are well worked have connective tissue that makes them tougher than muscles that were exercised comparatively little or that are from young animals. The more soluble the collagen, the more tender the meat is and collagen from younger animals tend to be more soluble and soluble at lower temperatures.
- Actomyosin toughness: Actomyosin toughness can be a major contributer to toughness in young animals and in relatively little used muscles. Immediately after slaugher, the warm flesh is soft and pliable. In a few hours, the meat goes into rigor and becomes rigid and inelastic. Cross-links form between the myosin and actin filaments where they overlap -- where the muscles are allowed to contract or shorten -- and are locked in place during rigor. After rigor has passed, the meat again becomes soft and elastic. (If pre-rigor meat is chilled to below 60°F (15°C), then cold-shortening of the muscles may occur and significantly increase toughness.)
Enzymes
Recall that enzymes make up a significant portion of the sarcoplasmic proteins. The sarcoplasmic calpains and lysosomal cathepsins enzymes are especially important in aging (which is also called conditioning). These enzymes catalyze the hydrolysis of one or more of the proteins -- calpains the Z line proteins and cathepsin the myosin, actin, troponin, and collagen proteins. Dry aging is usually done at 34--38°F (1--3.3°C) with about 70% humidity for 14 to 45 days. Higher temperature aging is also possible, see Lawrie (1998) page 239--40 or some of mine, Pedro, and Nathan's posts in the previous thread. As Nathan just discussed, this higher temperature aging at 113°F (45°C) for even 4 hours can significantly improve tenderness. (Lawrie notes that at 120°F (49°C) that tenderness is particularly increased but that it has a somewhat undesirable flavor.) At our sous vide cooking temperatures between 130 and 140°F (55 and 60°C), many of the enzymes have been denatured but some of the collagenases are active and can significantly increase tenderness.
References
H.-D. Belitz, W. Grosch, and P. Schieberle. Food Chemistry. Springer, 3rd edition, 2004.
Helen Charley. Food Science. John Wiley and Sons, second edition, 1982.
R. A. Lawrie. Lawrie’s Meat Science. CRC, 6th edition, 1998.
E. Tornberg. Effect of heat on meat proteins—implications on structure and quality of meat products. Meat Science, 70:493–-508, 2005.
Blog Link HERE
Blog Link HERE
By Nathan Myhrvold
The issue with meat tenderizing is much more complicated than you are suggesting. It is not just collagenases that are present, there are also various enzymes - calpains and cathepsins - that degrade proteins other than collagen, as well as some that act on collagen. Meat toughness is largely about collagen, but not exclusively.
It is a very complicated system, and most explanations of it are highly simplified. In part this is because it has not been figured out yet. A lot of recent meat science research has been about using molecular biology tools to study things that were oversimplified in research done in the 1970s.
The key thing is that the rates of enzymatic reactions are greatest above the animal's original body temperature (37C/100F). The higher the temperature, the faster the reaction (dramatically faster, they are exponential in tempertaure), until you get to a point where the enzyme itself is destroyed by the heat. Between 40C and likely about 50C there are some important enzymes active that cause tenderization. They quit at various tempertaures depending on the enzyme.
Conversely, at low temperatures some of these reactions do occur and likely are the cause of tenderization by meat aging. However instead of taking hours they take weeks (21 - 45 days are typical meat aging times).
The trouble with directly interpreting the Laakonen et al result is that their heating ramp, coupled with the thermal gradient in the meat (which depends on the thickness of the meat) means that different parts of the meat would be at different temperatures. So, while they report that tenderization occurred between 50C and 60C, the question is what part of the meat was at those temperatures?
Besides enzymes, there is also thermal conversion of collagen into gelatin. Note that "gelatinization" or variations on that word are not really the correct term. It is generally called denaturing, or hydrolysis, but there is no single accepted term.
This likely starts at 37C (studies differ on this), but at such a slow rate that it is hard to measure. Various scientific studies, particulary those from the years back, say that this process "starts" at various tempertaures, but that is almost surely wrong. This is particularly true of meat science studies done long ago which used ridiculously high temperatures, and in general oversimplified things.
Empirically, the fact is that by 52C the conversion to gelatin is certainly occuring, and for food safety reasons most long time sous vide occurs at 55C/130F, where it is happening. The rate is much slower at those tempertaures than higher (again, exponential in temperature) which is why you typically have very long cooking times.
Bottom line is this:
- Holding meat at 40C-50C (specifically we find pretty good results at 45C/113F) for up to 4 hours is within food safety guidelines, and has a significant tenderizing effect.
- Cooking meat at 55C/130F for at least 8 hours (and often 24, 48, or even up to 100 hours, depending on the cut) also has a significant tenderizing effect.
For really tough meat, you can do both. This works best if you have two water baths and switch the meat from one to the other, or if you have a programmable water bath and set a timer to change the temperature.
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